Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

sushi

more about tulpas

Recommended Posts

sushi   

Hi, I'm sushi. I'm new here, and I hope I don't get banned or anything for posting this. I come from the tulpa.info forums. One of our new members told me about this community, and I've been devouring everything I can over here. You've got a really great resource here. I wouldn't say that I've learned more about hypnosis in these past few days than the rest of my life -- but these past few days have allowed me to put what I know into practice. I've successfully hypnotized two people this week, for the first time in my life. Even if I get banned for this, I want to thank you all for that.

Anyway, I don't mean to stir up any trouble here. I understand that tulpas are an unwelcome subject here. I also understand that this bias stems from the belief that tulpas are dangerous, which is a little perplexing for me. Let me explain.

Carl Jung is sometimes called the father of modern psychology. He's the one who took Freud's theories that everything is sexual, and children want to have sex with their parents, and turned it into a respectable practice.

Jung wasn't just speaking from theory -- he was speaking from personal experience. At the age of 38, Jung began to see visions and hear voices. He worried that it was psychosis or schizophrenia, but rather than living in fear of what was happening to him, he embraced it. He began to deliberately induce these hallucinations. Rather than cowering in fear when monsters and demons appeared before him, he asked them what they meant and what message they had for him.

Jung accepted these visions as guides -- not something negative, but something positive. Chief among them was one named Philemon. Jung said this of Philemon:
 

Philemon and figures of my fantasies brought home to me the crucial insight that there are things in the psyche which I do not produce, but which produce themselves and have their own life. Philemon represented a force which was not myself. In my fantasies I held conversations with him, and he said things which I had not consciously thought. For I observed clearly that it was he who spoke, not I. He said I treated thoughts as if I generated them myself, but in his view thoughts were like animals in the forest, or people in a room, or birds in the air, and added, “If you should see people in a room, you would not think that you had made those people, or that you were responsible for them.†It was he who taught me psychic objectivity, the reality of the psyche. Through him the distinction was clarified between myself and the object of my thought. He confronted me in an objective manner, and I understood that there is something in me which can say things that I do not know and do not intend, things which may even be directed against me.

Psychologically, Philemon represented superior insight. He was a mysterious figure to me. At times he seemed to me quite real, as if he were a living personality. I went walking up and down the garden with him, and to me he was what the Indians call a guru.


During this period, Jung developed theories which became the foundation of modern psychology, such as the collective unconscious, the process of individualization, and the concepts of the complex, synchronicity, and archetypes. The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator was also founded on his theories. He had an indispensable influence on both psychology and literature. He recorded all of his experiences in the Red Book, which you can read yourself, if you like.

Jung was not the first person to have conversations with figments of his mind. Actually, this is an ancient practice. Plato tells us in his Apology that Socrates claimed to have a daimonion, (a "divine something") that warned him with a voice against making mistakes.

The word "genius" originally meant a divine spirit. It came to its current meaning of smart or talented person in a very similar way to Socrates' daimonion -- it was believed that art wasn't the ability of the artist, but the ability of this divine spirit who chose to act through the artist. Likewise for the Muses.

And of course I hardly even need to mention Joan of Arc, an uneducated and illiterate peasant child, who led France to victory during the Hundred Years War. She insisted up until the moment of her death that her success was due to divine voices that guided her.

But let's move up to modern times. A 1973 study involved healthy people being institutionalized for saying they heard voices. All but one were diagnosed with schizophrenia on that basis alone. They spent, on average 19 days in the hospital, and were forced to take antipsychotic drugs as a condition of their release -- even though they were healthy in every way, and reported that they hadn't heard any voices since being admitted.

Obviously society is very scared of people who hear voices. But should we be? The truth is, nearly 40% of non-institutionalized people in first world countries have experienced hallucinations. The most common are auditory hallucinations -- i.e. hearing voices or music. Hearing voices is not, in itself, crazy -- or uncommon. But nobody wants to admit to this sort of thing because there's such a stigma against it.

That's all well and good, but what about people with legitimate schizophrenia? Well, no one is denying that schizophrenia can't be dangerous. But hearing voices doesn't mean schizophrenia. There's also Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder). A great example of this is Truddi Chase, who was violently physically and sexually abused from the age of two onward, causing her to develop 92 personalities. In spite of this, she went on to lead a healthy and productive life. She refused to integrate her personalities, because she thought of them as a cooperating team.

Dissociative Identity Disorder, as in Truddi Chase's case, usually stems from childhood trauma. In cases of schizophrenia, trauma may also be a factor, but it can also result from substance abuse, or just simple genetics. The interesting thing about schizophrenia, as seen in Eleanor Longden's case is that it isn't necessisarily a negative experience. The thing that made it negative for Longden was when people told her there was something wrong with her, and she began to believe it.

Tulpas are neither schizophrenia nor Dissociative Identity Disorder, even when they seem to happen spontaneously. So what are tulpas? "Tulpa" is a Tibetan word meaning something like "creation of magic". The idea is that if someone imagines something long enough, it will eventually take physical form, and everyone will able to see, and hear, and touch it, and think that it's completely real. But that's not how our community uses the term.

The best way to define what a tulpa is to us, is that a tulpa is a mental companion perceived as external. A tulpa is not another personality (That's called multiplicity.) because a tulpa is viewed as something outside the body and outside the mind. Although they don't really exist outside the mind, the host imagines that they do. For example, Fenchurch is sitting on a filing cabinet next to my desk, watching me type this and occasionally offering insight. Although her thoughts are coming from my own brain, to me it's as if she has a mind of her own.

From what I've seen, any time that someone talks to something long enough, they'll start to hear it talking back. You'll see this in religious people who hear their gods talking to them, paranormal investigators who communicate with ghosts, writers who feel their characters have come to life, and children with favorite toys or imaginary friends. Even actors who spend a long time pretending something is true have a hard time convincing themselves otherwise. All of those can be called tulpas, and all of them would be welcome in our community, but the majority of us, myself included, deliberately created a tulpa because we wanted the companionship.

I've been a member of the tulpa community at tulpa.info for a year and a half now. Long before I showed up, the community encouraged the involvement of psychologists. For a long time, many of the threads posted there were tweeted to the academic community. Many members of the community have told their therapists about their tulpas, and many others have taken part in psychological studies on tulpas.

I can name many people in our community who have had negative experiences. Most of these experiences involved telling families and friends about something that meant very much to them, and being ostracized as a result.

But in my year and a half there I can only name one person who had a negative experience that wasn't caused by the disapproval of loved ones. And the general consensus in the community is that his issues stemmed from his substance abuse problem, not his tulpa.

Am I saying that there's no danger in making a tulpa? Of course not. There's danger in eating a sandwich or drinking a glass of water. But everyone I've ever spoken to has only gotten benefit. Some members of our community do come in with mental illnesses, like depression, aspergers, autism, and everyone I've spoken to has found that their tulpa helps them to manage whatever issues they're having.

Never have I ever seen anyone give themselves mental issues with a tulpa. You can't give yourself Dissociative Identity Disorder or schizophrenia. (Well, I suppose you might be able to give yourself schizophrenia, but it would involve doing a lot of drugs, not having an imaginary friend.)

Never have I ever seen a tulpa make the host do dangerous things. Think about that logically -- a tulpa is bound to you. A rational person wouldn't want her roommates running a meth lab out of the apartment, because what her roommates are doing is putting her in danger. Likewise, a tulpa doesn't want her headmate doing something dangerous because that would put her in danger too. If you're institutionalized, so is your tulpa. If you're killed, so is your tulpa. Nobody wants that.

As for me, I've had Fenchurch for a year and a half now. She assists me with planning and organization. She reminds me to exercise and pushes me to work harder. She encourages me to get along better with my girlfriend.

Yes, I do have a girlfriend. We've been in a relationship for for nearly four years now -- she predates Fenchurch. I also have a web/graphics design job in a sales office, which I've had for over a year. I'm close with my family, and I hang out with a small group of friends on a regular basis.

I consider myself pretty healthy. In fact, I think I'm healthier now than before Fenchurch. In my teenage years and through my early twenties (I'll be turning thirty this year) I had some pretty serious depression. I've mostly overcome it, but every once in a while, I can feel a depressive episode coming on. But now Fenchurch can feel these episodes coming too. And she's there to give me perspective, or support, or just tell me to stop whining. Because she knows me better than anyone else ever can, and she knows what I need to hear and when.

Anyway, that's all I have to say. I'm sorry to bring up a subject that so many people here seem to hate so much, but I felt that somebody should express the other perspective on this.

I'm also sorry to hear that these furry assistant/companion files no longer exist. To tell the truth, that's the reason I signed up here. I was wondering if this community had any interesting techniques that we might adopt.

Can I ask what happened that was so horrible? All I've been able to gather from searching the forum is that these companions developed personalities. Something worse than that must have happened, though. I mean after all, that's kinda the point, isn't it? So what did happen that was so horrifying?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rantack   

Very interesting information. I'm in psychology this semester, but it didn't go very in depth into Carl Jung, or about his personal experiences since that chapter was meant to set up the rest of psychology. But I also noticed a somewhat less than welcoming view of tulpas here, which seemed a bit odd since everywhere else I've seen them made them sound great. Thanks for the informative post, it made a great read. And I'll also have to give that tulpa study a read, as it's the first I've heard of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kanibal   

That is a very useful cited and thought out post and I can agree in principal with the majority of it. Tulpas themselves may not be dangerous because of exactly what you described;

"A rational person wouldn't want her room-mates running a meth lab out of the apartment"

...and so on.

 

The argument here was and always has been and shall be that they are not safe to induce via hypnosis.  The more forceful method of hypnosis as opposed to the gradual creation and/or natural occurrence documented elsewhere is what makes the practice applicable in some cases. The other reason for the companion files and the tulpa topic being frowned upon here is peoples misuse or misunderstanding.

 

FurMorphed is here to try and propagate understanding and knowledge (your post is definitely a for and not a balanced argument however) your post is welcome here in that objective function. I have heard that FM has been hostile toward the tupla community and that is not the case. Previous to your post we've not had a clear argument from your side - only nay-saying and attacks on our stance on the situation.

 

Speaking of our stance, it isn't going to change. The nature of this website is hypnosis based and inducing something like a tupla (almost forcing it into existence) through hypnosis is likely to create repeat issues of files (as mentioned above, the companion series). People are welcome to discuss them in a civilised and balanced manner and our actions thus far as a website has been to provide that balance to an otherwise very 'advertisement' like argument for tulpas.

 

Psychologists of the world are not likely to completely dismiss a wide spreading phenomena such as this but any good psychologist is going to assess all the factors of a person before calling it a good idea to undertake. As a website we don't have the facilities or power to make the required assessments of each member, nor is it our duty to, and as a result we have to warn people to air on the side of caution. Perhaps a person has a hypnotic interest in D/s which would interfere in the creation of a tulpas personality? (Yes this is one of the things which happened before) Something like that could easily get out of hand if the creation was forced and technically within the subjects desires.

 

This is why we still direct people to look at all the available resources on the internet and to draw their own opinions and why we ask members not to express their opinions as right or right for another member - you don't know and you can't know every detail of another members life.

 

..and on a slightly personal note I resent the comments about being banned for this. I nor FM would ever ban anyone for presenting an opinion or valid argument. We never have nor ever will we. If you now proceed to advertise them as right and not accept the websites stance on the topic and insist staff are 'wrong' in their personal opinions if they very from your own then that becomes a separate issue.

 

If people proceed to discuss the topic responsibly then it will be allowed to continue. If it is deemed as more of an advertisement than a discussion it will be reviewed differently.

 

TL:DR? My issue is not with tulpas directly - it's the tulpa/hypnosis cross that would be generated by bringing them here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Toolbox   

I have the feeling I'm the new member being referenced. X)

 

Lots of neat history here that I was unaware of, thanks for the read. :)

 

 

 

To Kanibal: I've not gotten the impression that you only oppose a hypnosis-induced companion/Tulpa. While you certainly have not been you haven't given any indication that there's a different way to go about it, nor mentioned that it's the combination of the Tulpa concept and hypnosis that is the problem, and you certainly never confronted the linked user on their absolute anti-endorsement as you have confronted Sushi.

 

I understand your intent is to keep people from making mistakes by combining hypnosis with a Tulpa, but I find it a bit offensive that you claim to be in favor of fairness on this when you've not made a genuine effort in that regard, and are claiming to have made the "hypnosis-induced only" distinction when that is not actually the case in any of the posts I've found.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kanibal   

To Kanibal: I've not gotten the impression that you only oppose a hypnosis-induced companion/Tulpa. While you certainly have not been you haven't given any indication that there's a different way to go about it, nor mentioned that it's the combination of the Tulpa concept and hypnosis that is the problem, and you certainly never confronted the linked user on their absolute anti-endorsement as you have confronted Sushi.

 

I understand your intent is to keep people from making mistakes by combining hypnosis with a Tulpa, but I find it a bit offensive that you claim to be in favor of fairness on this when you've not made a genuine effort in that regard, and are claiming to have made the "hypnosis-induced only" distinction when that is not actually the case in any of the posts I've found.

 

I suspect the impression you have will be of my personal opinion then. From my studies of psychology and my experiences within this type of community online I personally view it as an incredibly bad idea to encourage these instabilities unnecessarily through hypnosis without good sound reason and observation and a serious amount of experience. I have seen personalities, both separate/additional and modifications, be used to great effect and enjoyment in hypnosis but would discourage anyone without plenty of experience from attempting it as it can go very wrong.

Asking a new member, new to hypnosis, to enter into tulpa training in such a way would be like offering an infant power tools. It's not beyond their ability to use them but it would be better if they were a little older/more experienced first.

 

My personal opinion and the stance FurMorphed has on the matter need to be kept separate in every case and especially if I'm to take part in this discussion.

 

So... "you haven't given any indication that there's a different way to go about it, nor mentioned that it's the combination of the Tulpa concept and hypnosis that is the problem"

This is because thus far I hadn't been presented with a clear and concise post outlining information and examples as above. Simply I had not been provided with a mature debate situation which I felt like personally entering in to until now.

The site recommended people do more comprehensive research as it did not have the resources nor ability to tell people what to do or what was a better way.

 

Next... "and you certainly never confronted the linked user on their absolute anti-endorsement as you have confronted Sushi."

It's not my job as a member who shares their opinion to dispute them NOR is it my job as a moderator to provide a balanced argument but it IS my job as a moderator to ensure a balanced argument CAN take place.

If my reply to Sushi appeared confrontational and they share your opinion on that, which I deeply hope is not the case, then I am prepared to retract it and revise a differently worded response.

 

The member you've linked to as being very vocal about their objections is both entitled to their objections and welcome to express them as I know them to have been one of many seriously affected by the physiological adverse effects of practises such as this in the past. All members are welcome to debate the matter and if someone presents a strong opinion which you disagree with then please feel free to enter the debate. My job is to moderate the tone of the discussion not to make an effort to always provide a counter argument to every members post.

 

And so... "I understand your intent is to keep people from making mistakes by combining hypnosis with a Tulpa" This is hopefully the case and no mistakes will be made by anyone who could be caused harm. However... "but I find it a bit offensive that you claim to be in favor of fairness on this when you've not made a genuine effort in that regard" I apologise for being offensive and if you find it as such I can be reported as anyone else can if you feel the need. Though as I've said it is not my place as staff to provide the counter argument, merely enable it to take place in a civilised way, which I feel has been done -  no topic has been removed and no action has been taken against any member - you're all allowed to continue.

 

That said could I ask you to clarify if it is my personal opinion of the topic that offends you, or my conduct as staff in outlining the websites official stance on the matter?

 

Finally... "and are claiming to have made the "hypnosis-induced only" distinction when that is not actually the case in any of the posts I've found" - Again this is because posts made officially on behalf of the forum state that the boards stance on the matter, which has been decided upon by committee, is that the topic should be largely discussed elsewhere because of the risk of crossover into hypnosis-induced and repeats of past incidents. Where as my personal opinion, which is coming to light here for the first time, is that it is only the hypnosis crossover with inexperienced participants that is potentially risky because my personal experience is, as stated above, that it can be used to great effect and entertainment in hypnosis.

 

I hope this clarifies things and if not please either ask me to elaborate further. If you have found my posts to be offensive personally don't hesitate to report them as I am a member too and I hold opinions and I say things - if your issue is with the site stance on the matter then may this debate continue peacefully and perhaps move in the direction of changing that if that is your desired outcome.

 

However if you would rather I leave the debate (as I have done my job as staff by stating the site stance on the matter) then say so and I will happily keep my personal posting away from this topic.  Although, that does seem counter-intuitive to the concerns about fairness in who can post their opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Toolbox   

My intention is not to stifle your personal opinion at all, nor necessarily to change FurMorphed's official stance on it. If Tulpa creation via hypnosis is truly as dangerous as claimed, it's definitely a good idea to warn against it. But the idea conveyed throughout the site is that ANYTHING involving a Tulpa is absolutely dangerous, no exceptions whatsoever. Before I checked the actual message boards of Tulpa.info, I'd been led to believe that anyone I'd see there would be an insane emotional wreck, which is definitely not the case. They're against society's grain, perhaps, and I'll admit I'm still in the stage where a lot of the stuff there raises my brow, but it's not a collection of people going "send help, my Tulpa's holding me hostage" like what I expected based on everything here.

 

That said could I ask you to clarify if it is my personal opinion of the topic that offends you, or my conduct as staff in outlining the websites official stance on the matter?

 

Of those two, I suppose my problem would fall more under the latter, particularly in what I perceive to be some minor hypocrisy. With the statement "your post is definitely a for and not a balanced argument", it seems like you're getting on Sushi's case for not presenting the opposing side, but no such statement was ever made toward Kitsunami during their one-sided tirades, and in fact, you even

 

If you were talking about a hypnosis-induced Tulpa in that post, I suppose that's different, but the discussion had gone from talking specifically about hypnosis-induction to so I can only assume that you were addressing Tulpas in general, yourself.

 

Basically, I'm just feeling that there's a "tilt" that doesn't reflect the opinion you claim to hold. Whereas you say you want fairness and discussion in this so-far pro-Tulpa thread, you said no such thing and backed up the anti-Tulpa posters in the other thread, leaving the main pro-Tulpa poster there to continue being condescended towards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose the safety of tulpas depends massively on the method of creation.

Naturally occurring tulpas have little that makes them distinct from schizophrenic entities, though they are generally less malevolent.

Tulpas created through will and concentration seem very hit and miss. I've heard a pretty horrible story about a constantly screaming, blurry-faced Pinkie Pie tulpa created through this method; but plenty of great tulpas are created like this also. I'm not sure what causes the high amount of variation; like, I don't know why I could never see or (tangibly) hear my tulpa even though she became so advanced and self-sufficient that I think she's still quietly running in the back of my mind, pulling some strings here and there to my advantage.

Hypnosis tulpas seem to be things that almost always turn out pretty badly, given the history of this site and the impossibility of finding the relevant files.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kanibal   

...I suppose my problem would fall more under the latter, particularly in what I perceive to be some minor hypocrisy. With the statement "your post is definitely a for and not a balanced argument", it seems like you're getting on Sushi's case for not presenting the opposing side, but no such statement was ever made toward Kitsunami during their one-sided tirades, and in fact, you even

The very simple reason for me backing up Kitsunami's opinion is that I share it. I may conduct myself differently and convey it differently but our general opinions do appear to agree. As I've stated it is not my job to provide the balanced argument only to enable it to take place and I did not close the topic or discipline any members and everyone was welcome to continue responding.

 

Kitsunami never started a topic and nor did she provide long clarified and cited posts - at no point did she present an argument, only her opinion, and people are not required to present balanced versions of their opinions. People can believe what they want to believe.

Sushi is very maturely and sensibly starting a debate on the matter and less of a hurling back and forth of opinion and although it was not completely balanced in its own right it was clear in what it presented and left the topic open for a counter argument to be provided in a similar clear and sensible manner.

 

Another key thing that needs to be brought to the table to clarify further is the difference between hypnosis and self hypnosis.

The successes I have seen which create great effect and enjoyment from personality play and tulpa like entities are undertaken with a hypnotist present via text, voice or physically. The companion files which have been mentioned did not have such precautions available and any person regardless of their state was able to enter into it unchecked and proceed down a potentially derailed route. The file isn't going to stop and steer them back on course. Self hypnosis performed by the subject, as opposed to recorded, would be marginally safer IF the subject knew the risks and could keep an eye out for changes to themselves (which is notoriously difficult to do right as you are the cone changing but it's not impossible).

The mentioned risks, information and expertise are/were also not available here of FM hence directing people elsewhere to search.

 

... so I can only assume that you were addressing Tulpas in general, yourself.

To blanket apply any statement to any topic requires it to be averaged. My post states that "in 99.9% of all nominal cases these things do cause problems" which is not a blanket cover-all statement pre-telling disaster in every case, and you have only made assumptions that it was addressed toward a wider field, and the remainder of the post complains that the presentation of evidence is poor. This is most certainly not the case in this topic where the information provided has been spectacularly good.

 

If I were to apply a blanket statement to file hypnosis it would have to be that it is to be generally considered not safe in much the same way. This is just down to the average risk it holds to the general populous and does not reflect the smaller percentile that will learn about it and undertake them with caution.

 

In essence what I am saying is basically...

I suppose the safety of tulpas depends massively on the method of creation.

... and as I've said about blanket statements the average here states that they are not safe.

 

Apologies to accursed for only quoting a section of their post but the remainder of it seemed to cover again what I had already said in this post. I find myself generally agreeing with what you've said there.

 

If you'd like to debate further regarding my handing and conduct we should probably do that via personal message and clear the way for this topic to continue reflecting upon tulpas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sushi   

Wow. I was busy all day yesterday, and completely missed this topic exploding.

 

First of all, I would like to apologize for the banning comments. That was intended half in jest (though you can never really be sure when you join a new community). I did regret them after posting, when I realized that they could be taken a bit hasher than I had intended. So again, I apologize.

 

Second, Kanibal may very well be right. Although I've heard a very wide variety of tulpa stories in the past year and a half, I haven't heard from one single person whose tulpa was created with hypnosis -- in spite of the fact that there are at least two professional hypnotists selling that service. The only story of tulpa hypnosis (aside from testimonials from the aforementioned hypnotists) that I'm even aware of is from the book Hypnotism, by G. H. Estabrooks. Here's the relevant exerpt. (He wrote about himself in the third person, as used to be the fashion.)

 

For example, the writer while in military hospital had ample time to experiment with autosuggestion. ... The writer had a pet polar bear which he was able to call up merely by counting to five. This animal would parade around the hospital ward in most convincing fashion, over and under the beds, kiss the nurses and bite the doctors. It was very curious to note how obedient he was to "mental" commands, even jumping out of a three story window on demand.

But there is a certain menace to autosuggestion which this phantom bear illustrated. He became so very familiar that he refused to go away. He would turn up in the most unexpected places and without being sent for. The writer was playing bridge one evening and almost threw his hostess into hysterics by suddenly remarking, "There's that damn bear again. I wish someone would shoot the beast." He also had a nasty habit of turning up in dark corners at night, all very well when one realized he was just made of ghost-stuff but rather hard on one's nerves for all that. So he was banished and told never to return, but it was fully a month before the writer felt quite sure that his ghostly form would not be grinning at him over the foot of his bed during a thunderstorm.

 

Obviously not a good experience, and Estabrooks even had the advantage of being in control of the process himself with autosuggestion, or self-hypnosis. So, I have to admit that Kanibal may very well have a good point here. Plus personality and sentience are (usually) so easy that I hardly see the need for hypnosis in that area -- especially if it's dangerous. Really, the thing that brought me here was the hope that you had a better method for imposition.

 

I don't know if you have a word for imposition here. Imposition is the deliberate creation of very specific hallucinations. These could be visual, auditory, tactile, or even involve other senses. In our community, this usually involves hallucinating our tulpas' form and voice, though we do have a few members working on phantom tails or horns or similar. The process of imposition is very difficult, and less than one percent of our community ever makes it there. I was hoping that it could be made easier with hypnosis, though I know that hallucination is one of the most difficult things to do with hypnosis as well.

 

I would also be very interested in hearing about the companion series and the experiences people had with it. Like I said, I don't know much about doing this with hypnosis, so any information would be appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Contrary to popular opinion, autism spectrum conditions (including Asperger's syndrome) are not illnesses but have advantages and disadvantages (which can significantly vary among people).  For example, my autism enhances my intelligence, ability to notice details, and concentration and is possibly responsible for my absolute pitch but inhibits my social skills, ability to interpret nonverbal communication, emotional comprehension (possibly to the point of alexithymia), creativity, and reaction times and causes me to be analytical to the point that, despite many attempts, I have thus far failed to become hypnotized.  However, perhaps, tulpas could improve people's ability to cope with at least some of their autism spectrum conditions' disadvantages.

 

I, for one, do not appreciate me and my peers being considered to be ill merely due to our neurological deviations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sushi   

I apologize for that, that's entirely my mistake. I do have some friends who have been diagnosed with autism, but it's not something that we really talk about, you know? Autistic members from our community have reported that tulpas have helped them cope though, and we've noticed that they tend to do better than average at making tulpas, due to improved focus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Autistic members from our community have reported that tulpas have helped them cope though, and we've noticed that they tend to do better than average at making tulpas, due to improved focus.

Ironically, my ability to create tulpas is inferior to the average neurotypical's, due to my deficiencies in creativity and imagination.  Of course, hypnotically creating them is even more difficult for me.

 

With what autistic issues of those autistics have their tulpas helped them to cope?  How has it been accomplished?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ironically, my ability to create tulpas is inferior to the average neurotypical's, due to my deficiencies in creativity and imagination.  Of course, hypnotically creating them is even more difficult for me.

 

With what autistic issues of those autistics have their tulpas helped them to cope?  How has it been accomplished?

I can give a personal report on having tulpas deal with autism.

Aspergic here, so on the autistic spectrum.

My tulpa was designated as a background worker from the start, rather than foreground decoration.

Never got her tangible, but she was able to modify personality to dispel the anger and stubbornness that comes with aspergers.

Her current status is unknown, but the neural routes she was using to alter personality are still at least partly usable.

I'm probably gonna have to track her down though if I'm to gain proper control of said personality alteration, I can't make permanent alterations like she could; long-term changes I make only last a few days and then they're much harder to enforce after that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aspergic here, so on the autistic spectrum.

Before even becoming a FurMorphed member, from having read previous threads in the hypnosis forums, I was surprised to discover that you and a few other members were on the spectrum, although I was unsurprised that it was inhibiting the hypnotizability of some of them.

My tulpa was designated as a background worker from the start, rather than foreground decoration.

Do you mean that she was intended to represent at least part of your subconscious and that such representation enabled her to modify portions of your subconscious?

Never got her tangible, but she was able to modify personality to dispel the anger and stubbornness that comes with aspergers.

I could understand that being possible if she were hypnotically created, and if I recollect correctly, she was.

 

How does your Asperger's syndrome promote anger and stubbornness in you?  Is this typical of people with it? autistics? anyone else on the spectrum?  I experience neither issue.

 

On a related note, I have read Asperger Syndrome and Anxiety: A Guide to Successful Stress Management, which has informed me that one having Asperger's syndrome tends to promote stress in one and even says, "I do not believe in the adage that people with Asperger's have fewer emotions than neurotypicals.  If anything, I think our emotional range is greater and more intense.  When we release an emotion, it might be likened to a volcano exploding."  However, I seem to be stoic and, partly consequently, am skeptical.  (Perhaps, one can be alexithymic and stoic and stoicism can cause alexithymia, probably due to lack of emotional experiences causing lack of emotional comprehension.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, she was intended to represent my subconscious, but she was not hypnotically created; I certainly wouldn't have been able to find a file since I didn't know that tulpamancy was a thing other people did.

As for aspergers promoting anger and stubbornness, it's just that spergs are inherently bad at handling people,

Probably stress from handling people.

My tulpa permanently made me less prone to anger than normal though, rather than providing a usable workaround.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kanibal   

Just as a slight interjection to the topic I, and other members, would appreciate if personal and private information were not disclosed, or worse purely fabricated, without their knowledge or consent - if you wish to discuss the mental well-being of yourself and others it's best not to derail this topic to do it.

 

Note that relevant posts were reported and have been edited / warned for - so this post may seem out of place in the future referring to parts of a conversation above which has had details removed by request. For those that did see the conversation above before I arrived to deal with the report you may understand why I may have been angry and jumped on this report as soon as I arrived home this morning.

 

... anyway, do continue. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, she was intended to represent my subconscious, but she was not hypnotically created; I certainly wouldn't have been able to find a file since I didn't know that tulpamancy was a thing other people did.

How was she able to alleviate your anger issues, without hypnosis' involvement?  Was she able to modify portions of your subconscious?

As for aspergers promoting anger and stubbornness, it's just that spergs are inherently bad at handling people,

Probably stress from handling people.

In regards to the anger, my conjecture was similar, in that I conjectured that indirect consequences of one having Asperger's syndrome (or, for that matter, otherwise being on the autism spectrum), including social failures and discrimination, would be a potential source of anger for one.

 

However, I am perplexed about the stubbornness.  How could social failures promote stubbornness?

My tulpa permanently made me less prone to anger than normal though, rather than providing a usable workaround.

For what: the anger proneness? the social failures? the stress thereof?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as a slight interjection to the topic I, and other members, would appreciate if personal and private information were not disclosed, or worse purely fabricated, without their knowledge or consent - if you wish to discuss the mental well-being of yourself and others it's best not to derail this topic to do it.

Oh, I assumed that the person to whom the information in question pertained intended it to be public, because he/she divulged it to me in a publicly accessible chatroom while other people were present.  (In fact, some of them were participating in the conversation from which I discovered it.)

 

I was already slightly concerned about the possibility that I was causing the thread's discussion to become off-topic but did not anticipate any complaints, partly due to FurMorphed's infrequent activity.

 

Note that relevant posts were reported and have been edited / warned for - so this post may seem out of place in the future referring to parts of a conversation above which has had details removed by request.

I would have appreciated redaction (preferably with a square-bracketed, explanatory comment) over mere deletion, to avoid what is tantamount to misquoting and what probably technically constitutes misrepresentation.  The deleted text was a sentence that preceded what is now the sole sentence of the second paragraph of my first post in this thread, and I am uncertain as to whether, if I had not originally included the former sentence, the latter sentence would have existed, at least in its present form.  Perhaps, I would have phrased it differently, presented a probably slightly different statement, or not composed a second paragraph at all.  I know that such issues are excessively minor to matter to most humans but am a pedantic perfectionist who generally tolerates neither inaccuracies nor dishonesty.

 

I am surprised that the post in question has not been marked with a notification that it has been edited, as any post that has been edited by its author would be, and am concerned about the potential for abuse, in that an administrator/moderator could secretly modify another person's post and intentionally deceive others into believing that the new contents are the original, which the author could be unable to disprove.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kanibal   

Oh, I assumed that the person to whom the information in question pertained intended it to be public, because he/she divulged it to me in a publicly accessible chatroom while other people were present.  (In fact, some of them were participating in the conversation from which I discovered it.)

 

I was already slightly concerned about the possibility that I was causing the thread's discussion to become off-topic but did not anticipate any complaints, partly due to FurMorphed's infrequent activity.

I would have appreciated redaction (preferably with a square-bracketed, explanatory comment) over mere deletion, to avoid what is tantamount to misquoting and what probably technically constitutes misrepresentation.  The deleted text was a sentence that preceded what is now the sole sentence of the second paragraph of my first post in this thread, and I am uncertain as to whether, if I had not originally included the former sentence, the latter sentence would have existed, at least in its present form.  Perhaps, I would have phrased it differently, presented a probably slightly different statement, or not composed a second paragraph at all.  I know that such issues are excessively minor to matter to most humans but am a pedantic perfectionist who generally tolerates neither inaccuracies nor dishonesty.

 

I am surprised that the post in question has not been marked with a notification that it has been edited, as any post that has been edited by its author would be, and am concerned about the potential for abuse, in that an administrator/moderator could secretly modify another person's post and intentionally deceive others into believing that the new contents are the original, which the author could be unable to disprove.

This pertains to an off-topic matter which you can discuss further in PM should you so choose, not here in the topic which would be derailed.

 

Did you honestly just double post to say it too? xD

 

Carry on people!...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How was she able to alleviate your anger issues, without hypnosis' involvement?  Was she able to modify portions of your subconscious?

In regards to the anger, my conjecture was similar, in that I conjectured that indirect consequences of one having Asperger's syndrome (or, for that matter, otherwise being on the autism spectrum), including social failures and discrimination, would be a potential source of anger for one.

 

However, I am perplexed about the stubbornness.  How could social failures promote stubbornness?

For what: the anger proneness? the social failures? the stress thereof?

Humans are still just animals, so behaviours oriented towards pushing one's own success (Stubborness, and responding angrily to opposition) should be an inherent trait.

Usually said trait would be decently overridden by social skill, but then something that meant less social skill (aspergers) would have their primitivity more prominent.

 

And yes, she did modify portions of my subconscious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And yes, she did modify portions of my subconscious.

How was she able to do so, without hypnosis' involvement?  This is especially what has been perplexing me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tulpae are generally reported to be far closer to the subconscious mind than the host mind, its not much of a stretch to think that they could influence it more easily than the host mind's as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tulpae are generally reported to be far closer to the subconscious mind than the host mind, its not much of a stretch to think that they could influence it more easily than the host mind's as well.

How can such metaphorical proximity be established?  Can it be established without hypnosis?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How was she able to do so, without hypnosis' involvement?  This is especially what has been perplexing me.

Hypnosis sends instructions to the subconscious, moderated by the conscious.

Hypnosis is not the only way to get instructions to the subconscious; it's just that it's far more effective than most methods.

Tulpas and the willpower of the individual are alternate methods, the former being also rather effective and the latter being usually weak but quite effective in conjunction with the former.

With my case, it is or at least was the subconscious using a mix of my instructions and its own ideas.

 

 

How can such metaphorical proximity be established?  Can it be established without hypnosis?

The evidence is that tulpas created through hypnosis are actually lacking that proximity, if the idea that they compete with their creator for brain power is true.

The proximity appears to be fairly standard in tulpas, though through willpower alone it can be enhanced as I did with mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×